Thanks Angel, it helps a lot. That's three people on this board who have been as deep in the pain as I am who have told me that it definitely will get better. I kind of know that really, but I think that when I am feeling low I come in here like a frightened child and need a bit of reassurance. It's a wonderful thing that I can get it. *hugs*
Ooh, I definitely don't stalk. That would be the end of me! He's 'The Invisible Man' nowadays. The only way.
I can sort of feel the shift from grieving for the loss of him to grieving for my past. It still gets all muddled up together though, and his face is still the one I'm focused on.
It's so good to hear from members who are feeling better now.
Post by inthemoment on Feb 21, 2010 8:00:00 GMT -8
Thanks all for sharing. Validating. It's weird knowing intellectually that I'm going through withdrawal from my POA, but emotionally having such a hard time processing it. I feel embarrassed to be struggling so much with this, but there it is. My therapist tells me to "stay with the pain", and yet when I do, my thoughts run wild - into imaginings of hurt, anger (and denial, bargaining, depression, etc. - the stages of grief) and I have an incredibly difficult time meditating and staying in this moment (hence my moniker!) I guess the only answer is to keep trying, and keep allowing, to be gentle and forgiving with myself. But I do have to say - this really sucks! ;-)
I thought I was doing better with my withdrawal. But it is as bad as before all of the sudden. I am unable to truly believe in my heart that he lied and never cared about me. But it is the only thing that makes sense about the whole mess. I knew he was F'ed up when I got involved. I knew neither of us was available, but no one had ever given me those words before. "I've always loved you." His repeating of his mantra "You're stuck with me " fooled me completely. His promises not to disappear....all lies. In the end, that is exactly what he did. In excruciatingly slow increments. 1. Did not respond to emails unless sexy. Personal needs of mine were ignored. 2. If he didn't want to deal with something, he went silent. Even in PERSON! 3. Only allowed contact by phone on his schedule; not mine. Answered emails when he felt like it. 4. Stood me up twice. Said 1st time he was scared. 2nd time said he fell asleep. 5. Phone calls dwindled down to nothing. Finally told me to do all calls to him. 6. Stopped sending emails. Said his computer broke. Got it fixed but never started emails again. I finally realized that the only thing keeping it going was my calling him, and he didn't treat me right when I did call. Our last words were so pathetic. I said "My life is nuts right now." and he replied "Call me when you feel better." How empathetic was that?! I went through this with him 20 yrs. ago and I was alone then; no H and kids or friends to help. It was hell. But that was after only a month or two of contact. This time, it has been a year. And many many "I love you's". I am constantly questioning my reality. My sanity is hanging by a thread. Every day of silence is a knife in my heart. I don't want him anymore. I hate him. But I cannot stand the pain of being used and lied to by a narcissistic SW. I feel like I cannot trust ANYONE in the world anymore. I have become so paranoid that I won't leave the house except with H and kids for dinner out. I can't socialize. I have avoided all my friends here because they seem so superficial. I can't let anyone near me unless they are in the inner circle. The others are locked out. I spend the day sleeping, on the computer, or crying in my bed. My H works at home to care for me. I am helpless. I am trapped at the edge of suicide's final, most horrible pain but I cannot commit suicide to find the relief of the end of the pain because of the kids. So I am stuck. Withdrawal never ending. I want him to PAY for what he did to me. I want to HURT HIM. I want him to see what he does to people and suffer. I want to send the note to his wife and tell her how he cheated on her and hates his kid. I want him to lose his job and get depressed and kill himself. He tried it years ago;; I wish he had succeeded.
Post by perfectday on Feb 21, 2010 10:07:39 GMT -8
Hi Miztex, I'm pleased to see you here after your last post.
*hugs* Have you been to the sites about NPD? There are forums that you can join so that you can get all this off your chest to other people who have been on the receiving end. They say knowledge is power so I'd read as many websites about narcissism as you can.
Who knows if we were ever loved or not? Who knows what people mean when they say, "I love you."? Your PoA is certainly a sick man. Nobody would treat another human that way unless they were. It's nothing to do with you.
I think it's the betrayal. I was betrayed (I betrayed myself as much) and it brought back the childhood betrayal by my Father. It's hard to know what to do with it. Lies are so destructive, as is feeling used. More so to people who have been used when they are small.
Can you try to see this as a bad time, but hope that it will get better again? We're 6 weeks tomorrow, which is so early. It goes up and down for me. Sometimes desperate, unable to breathe, sometimes more accepting.
I think he's hurting *himself*. You don't need to worry about that. I don't think he can be happy having treated you that way. Revenge is always a bad idea. It will hurt you the most.
Miztex, big hug dear girl. It sounds incredibly painful. Just keep it in the day and if you can do the simple things like eat well and answer essential calls, keep the kids routine and put on your decent clothes when you go out, whatever the little things are, just do them as best you can. I know how horrendous grief can be when it comes up and consumes everything. It's really okay, this is temporary. It WILL get better. Just keep praying and handing over your will and you'll come back to you. Best. Primrose.
Only the ego can struggle, the soul lives in ease and joy.
Post by perfectday on Feb 21, 2010 10:19:12 GMT -8
Oh, and you must read The Betrayal Bond by Patrick Carnes. Go google it as there are excerpts all over the 'net. It helped me no end, as my r/s was so bound up in the childhood abuse I couldn't see where the PoA ended and my Dad started. That was horrid for my ex but really it was his behaviour at the beginning that caused it.
You are trauma bonded probably. Greta and I were talking about it. A lot of this can be mixed in with the LA, but it's something extra on top. It's also called Stockholm Syndrome. It will help you, I'm sure, to learn about it.
hi miztex, i agree with the posts above. When I was in early withdrawal I really needed to stay in the moment.
stuff like 'I am now washing my face. the water is warm and feels good on my skin...'
' Iam now making myself breakfast, pouring boiled water over my teabag....' I mean really talking to myself like that all day for many days.
I'm sure that absolutely everything you do right now is PLAGUED by thoughts of why did he do this? why did he say that? what kind of sicko was he? How could he use me like that? what did i see in him anyway? MY questions miztex, but I'm sure they are exactly the same for you cos our POAs were so similar.
i also understand the 'he must have had feelings for me' and altho' my POA never once said the words 'I love you' I was convinced he did deep down. And i found it so very difficult to let go of that dream. i tried on and off all thru the 16 mths we were involved.
I looked at something PD mentioned about narcissism on youtube...that took me to other video links and more and more.
I felt really sick and unsettled by it all because so much explains my POA's behaviour. It explains what they are and their symptoms but there is no real explanation or closure for us. So the only solution is total NC, physical and emotional NC. At least I try to do that - not always successful but much better than I was a couple of months ago.
believe me miztex, take your kids into your arms, look deep into their eyes and connect only with them for now. The love I feel as a mother is something that helped me so much to get back down to earth. Pour your love onto them and keep your POA out of your thoughts as much as you possibly can.
I'm almost 5 mths in recovery, 4 months of NC very soon. I still think of him, it still affects me but nowhere near as much as it did in the first months. My life is MANAGEABLE again. I an NOT powerless over this addiction at this present time but it is absolutely ESSENTIAL to live in the here and now.
You are probably doing better than you think. Pain makes us feel like we are not doing good. But if you are going through the pain, you are doing way better then had you avoided it like you did in the past. I have found I cannot avoid the pain. I can push it around like a vegetable I hate to eat. But it is still there, waiting to be processed. So, you are doing the best possible thing by coming here, and posting it. My sponsor told me to say a prayer asking God to help me RUN AWAY from any thoughts that keep me blocked off from recovery. Maybe that would help. To ask God to help rid you of any negative thinking surrounding your pain. You're doing great!
I find it strange that people I have never met in person are so essential to my life and health at this moment in time. I am humble. I am deeply grateful to each of you. I have decided to let my H handle the mother in law thing. She is HIS problem. I am stressing because I have a 1 hour layover in POA's city on Friday(I will be visiting a friend in another state and may be offline for the weekend, but back on the day after my birthday. I want to call him a say "Meet me at the airport(he will be off work and ten minutes from the airport). I want to look him in the eye and tell him how he hurt me. I never got to do that. We were always on the phone. I will threaten to tell "wifey" if he tries to beg off or doesn't show up. But I might get him there by seduction alone.(yuk) This is my current fantasy. I am fighting it by: 1. Reminding myself of 48 days of NC as of today. I don't want to start over. 2. Reminding myself that I tend to get physically violent very easily. I don't want to kill him in the airport. (In private....where I can make the pain last a loooong time. LOL!) 3. Reminding myself that I don't want to see his ugly face ever again. 4. Reminding myself that I am the one who has not called HIM! I dumped HIM! I have my revenge for 20 yrs. ago. It helps a little. 5. Reminding myself that I cheated and lied, too. I used him, too. I never wanted him to leave his wife. I never wanted to leave my H. I just wanted him to sweet talk me and have some good sex. The Jerk teased me. But I kept trying to get him to be different; normal. Not going to happen. Best we stay away from each other. 6. If he did show up, I wouldn't hurt him. I think I would just give him an envelope and walk away. Inside would be all of the Love Addict, Love avoidant, SA, SW, narcissist literature I have found. I think it would speak for itself. What do you guys think? If I make it to my 90 day NC goal and still want to, should I mail him the envelope? If I think about that, I MIGHT get past this Friday. Let me know. I know going back and reading what I just wrote I sound crazy. Back and forth. God, let it end soon! PLEASE!
This board is life saving Good that you are being honest about what you "want". No sense in kidding yourself, right? Even the part about being easily moved to violence. I laughed a bit when I read it. Very honest. 1hr lay over is not bad. You can do this. Go through the security check to the gate of your next destination, sit down, and read a book(maybe something spiritual). When you get past security, you will probably not want to go back through. They won't let him through to see you. Read and pray.
Post by perfectday on Feb 21, 2010 22:47:14 GMT -8
He won't care that he hurt you. He'd turn it around somehow. Telling him will only get you riled up. I can imagine what it would do to your health to have to face him. Your body wouldn't thank you. And think of starting NC again! It wouldn't be worth it. I know you want to kill him, and I don't blame you, but don't do that to your karma.
Miztex, you sound like such a cool and interesting woman, and I hope that you realise that he isn't worth another ounce of your energy. Tell yourself that one day you can send him the literature, but DON'T DO IT NOW! I bet that soon you won't even care to. Just see him as a sickness, because there's more sickness than man there right now. Don't let the sickness poison you any more.
Great idea of KB's. Get yourself to a safe place and read something spiritual which will support you through it.
Miztex, don't send it, the work you've put into that research on what he is, that work's for you. Keep it and in a few months you'll look at it and be amazed at how far you've come. It will be like looking into another life. Don't give him anything, not a thing. Your energy and intelligence is precious, it's for you and for others who are willing to get well. All the cleverness you have can be channelled here for people in pain who really want to get better. There are people here on this site who are longing for the understanding you've acquired. We need you here. That envelope is useful to the brave and the courageous who are not afraid to look deeply at themselves and take responsibility for their lives, the people who are here struggling with withdrawal and embracing change. Don't throw pearls before swine. Best. Primrose.
Only the ego can struggle, the soul lives in ease and joy.
I agree with everyone else...it is not worth your own health to try to "help" him. I struggled with this with my POA. I tried to drops hints, but he just didn't get it. It's not worth it! Just stay away from him!
you're not going to get closure from him. He can't tell you anything that is going to make things better.
I was banging my head off a brick wall for months with my POA trying to get him to open up to me. on the occasions he did I really felt like running for the hills. I could NOT understand his reasoning on so many things but still I kept trying to mould his thinking into something I could comprehend.
The next few paragraphs are about my POA. Don't read if you think you'll get annoyed at me for doing that. I think miztex likes to hear about my POA's warped thinking cos it helps her to see her own POA is as sick as mine and i hope that will help her to put him behind her and focus on moving forward as I am doing
But he is so screwed up himself. One minute he'd say he never felt guilty and the next he'd say how looking into his wife's eyes was a dagger in his heart cos she no longer trusted him. Sounds like guilt to me. Bu then again it might just have been because his wife saw him as flawed and that was a HUGE blow to his ego.
He said he had finally come clean with his wife but contradicted details he had told me earlier. When his EMA was discovered by his wife, his ex AP suddenly became an toxic despicable woman whereas when he told me about her months before she was a wonderful woman he'd never forget.
He totally justified his wife's hostile reaction to his ex AP because she had been harmed by this woman who was trying to take him away from his loving wife and kids. His wife had every right to take it out on her. He sounded as if he thought he was completely blameless. No reasoning with him at all.
The email conversation we had was mind boggling. His wife was threatening to seduce ex AP's new affair partner so that she could get her own back. She wanted to go to this woman's city and confront her face to face.
And I kept asking him why he wasn't accepting the blame and leaving the ex AP out of it...he would hear none of it. his wife was suddenly a woman who could do no wrong, she was fighting for her husband and her kids , he ADMIRED her strength and courage... Talk about being totally shame averse!!!
His reasoning was totally warped miztex.
My POA had only had sex in his opinion. the other woman was to blame because she 'started it'. And we're talking a 6 year on off afffair here!
I'm done trying to understand the man. He's nothing like me as far as emotions are morals are concerned altho' he did try to convince me I was very like him.
He is unfathomable and there is no way I could get him to think the way I do. So the best thing I ever did in my whole life was throw in the towel.
your POA is the same as mine. Leave him alone and do yourself a favour. No seduction bombs.
I had spent that one thursday night with him and then on Friday he drove me to my friend's. He had refused to come and see me again after that one night we spent together. That weekend what I'd done suddenly hit me and I was feeling suicidal and floating around in a freezing cold city.
my friend was disgusted with me after I confessed I had cheated on my h and i left early cos I couldnt handle her coldness towards me. My POA was really worried about me he said but there was no way he could see me. On Monday I was 2 miles away from him at another friend's and I begged him to come see me at the bus station. I was in tears and desperate because I was flying home the next day. He said he couldnt leave his kids. NOT EVEN FOR TEN MINUTES!
He did seem worried about me but I was hanging onto my sanity for dear life at that stage. I was heading home to my family and how had I ever imagined I could live with what I'd done.
we did say goodbye at the airport but that set me back again. I was so triggered at the airport that it took me another year to get out. Had we not seen each other again after our one night together I believe I would have got over it a lot sooner. I would just have felt used and that would have been it. As it was I was back on the rollercoaster.
Don't break NC miztex. It is NOT worth it and you'll just be creating new pain. I'm done with pain. Had enough for a lifetime. I'm working on myself. I tried to help my POA by explaining about sex addiction but he just flew off the handle...there is no point evn trying. Work on your anger for now and concentrate on getting into recovery.
Last Edit: Feb 22, 2010 4:52:15 GMT -8 by perfectday
Thank you for sending me that. It did help. Especially the parts about alone in a cold city and him not willing to leave kids for ten minutes when you were hurting so bad. I am so sorry that you went through that pain. I almost lost my mind multiple times because of him. I won't make that mistake again, ever. PD, KB, Besatt, Prim, Thanks. Message received. I will read and pray at the airport on Friday. 1pm Central Standard Time. Send prayers at that time. I will need them.
after reading Greta's post, I remembered that when he stood me up this last time, I was finally getting a little better after a week when my POA pinged my phone. He didn't have the guts to speak; just breathing and then hung up. But it triggered me again and I was back in for another 6 months of hell. Each time I tried to leave, or told him I was dumping him, I went back because the pain of the withdrawal was so bad. And each time, I kicked myself for breaking NC. I guess I couldn't face the fear and the reality that I was being used. I still have trouble with that. But I am not begging my H to help me to die anymore. I am not lying in bed hysterically crying anymore(o.k.....a little). I am still a housebound mess, but that will change soon when we move. I am trying to remember how it felt to be humiliated by him time and again, and NOT expect him to be different. He is an assclown, loser, narc, SW, SA, and all around bad man. I shouldn't waste a thought on him.
Miztex, Exactly! I was the same. FACE THE FEAR. We let ourselves be used. For some reason we wanted them to use us, abuse us and abandon us. Now it's time to concentrate on US. Not them. We are wounded children and need nurturing and to be taken care of. But that can only come from within. As we go thru the process of self discovery we have each other thank God! Let's lean on each other, be there for each other and we WILL get thru this. Greta
OMG!I can not stop looking at my cellphone!looking to see if "he" called.I am so torn between throwing my cell against the wall or curling into a little ball. He called me sunday night to "check in" i sooooooo hate him and hate ever breath i take without him near! grrrrrrrrrrrrr
Reading Kat97 's message reminded me of how I used to wait for the special day and time that I could call HIM! I LIVED for those "fixes"of my fantasy drug. I am sober 47 days now. It hurts like hell, but I can stand it. BTW, I have a funny story. FYI, I had a gastric bypass in 2005 and lost a great deal of weight. ever since I have to be careful to chew my food completely or it will get stuck in my new "pouch". Tonight I was in a hurry, and a piece of chicken got past me not chewed well. I spent 3 hrs. puking into the basin with my H holding my hair and sponging my face. Now THAT'S LOVE! And the first time all day that I didn't obsess!! ROTFLMAO!!!! miztex
Hi everybody Miztex, I recognize that focusing on your body helps to not focus on a POA... maybe you can get this relief in a healthier way as well, like getting a good massage? I feel like half of my posts nowadays is about massages... :-) can't help it, they just help me so much to stay or get back in touch with myself. Today I am experiencing pain of withdrawal. Or mourning, or whatever you call it. I was close to my ex's house because of work obligations and it strongly brought back memories. I had to work hard to also remember the bad stuff. I know what it is I miss: it's not him, it's the image of a safe, warm place, where I am cuddled and loved and there is a bath tub :-) This is how it was in the beginning and how it remained for a while in my mind, even though in reality it changed big time. But it's good to feel in touch with my inner child. She needs much protection.
Today after work I started really missing my ex and his children. Both seperately and the combination as well. A complex of missing in my head. And I feel it in my arms and chest as well. HALTT-check: tired and tense. Love Moonlight
It's later now, I'm hurting so much. I long for a boyfriend, for a safe person, a partner, a shoulder to lean to, arms around me at night. I feel so lonely without. I've been without so much, also last couple of years. Being in a relationship was an exception rather than a normal situation. I feel so jealous of friends that have been in relationships for years and years. I so want that too. Why can't it work out for me one time?
MoonLight, I feel your pain. It's interesting because I have been with a man my entire adult life & I am now officially seperated & have seen in the past several months how under developed I am as an adult because of my constant reliance & consumption of my partner. So it's like you've had the opposite of what I have had & we are both eager to be on the opposite side.
I was feeling anxious about my life fast forwarding to full independence. I was anxious to see how it feels to totally be alone, live alone & not be in a relationship. I still am but thanks for sharing the realness of that side too.
True I was in a marriage for many years, but it was one sided. He is a good man but never considered my wants or needs & because I was addicted to him, I clenched him beyond comfort. It was not a marriage either one of us wants to return to.
Guess either side is not always peachy & they both can have some real hurt spots.
Hang in there, It can work out, when it's time, enjoy the in between time...at least that's what I'm trying to do.
I understand where you are at. I can see my POA is badly damaged, all of them were and even if he came served naked on a platter I wouldn't want him. I deserve someone who is healthy (and a man who would allow that?? LOL sorry little joke!) and who will be there for me in many ways that I deserve.
I too long for all the things you describe but seriously, whenever I went near a man who was unavailable, all those things were SO difficult to obtain, to even GIVE love was such hard work. I don't want to go through that again.
I am having faith that my career is working out, I am going to have to extend my faith and believe that a relationship is possible as well. It all comes from our HP. Put more into your program and give more love to yourself and I am sure that it will happen, and even when we do it this way we will feel better about ourselves too.
Thanks very much for your supporting words. Ok2bme: you're right, it's interesting to see both sides of the coin. And it's true, I also enjoy the benefits of having been single a lot. I can take care of myself very well, like buying nice things for myself, flowers, knowing my body's rythm (hm, how do you write that?!), I even enjoy going on holidays by myself. I have developed a conversation with myself. And Angel: you're absolutely right with the reality check: even if I'm in a relationship, it's not automatic to receive all these things I long for.
Today I feel much better. It really helped me yesterday to take a bath (I got a "bath tub" = large storage box from the Ikea to fit into my tiny shower). I relaxed and felt comforted (similar to warm arms around me). And felt contented when I wrote my gratitude diary. I think that many times after a busy working week, I just feel so overwhelmed by all the input that I sort of "crash down" and long for a partner/HP/parent figure to cuddle me to take away the excess stress. Now I'm quite enjoying the day without obligations, together with my cat who faithfully stays within the meter most of the times. In a while I'm going to the library to get "The shame that binds you". I hope you all have a very nice day, wherever you are on this huge but tiny world!
Post by glaciertraveler on Feb 27, 2010 11:19:46 GMT -8
This thread is helping me so much. I am on Day 2 of withdrawal after breaking with my latest poa for about the 6th time. At the end he told me how much he loves me and will always, but just can't give me what I want. That's true. All of the time I spent with him I felt like I was compromising my values in a relationship - mainly that I want intimacy and connection.
I've asked him for NC in the past. Once I broke it and once he broke it. This time we both agreed that NC is best. Well, it's difficult, of course. I go through the thoughts that maybe he'll change and come running back to me - a new person. Fantasy.
I know that this a good decision. I know that it is right. Nevertheless, I still check to my emails to see if he's written me. Yuk.
Reading these posts shows me that we can survive withdrawal and that we thrive after going through it. I've gone through other withdrawals, but it's still difficult for me to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel. My solution is to try and be in the moment. Although nothing feels very good right now, I am trying to find small things throughout the day that make me happy. Yesterday I slept all day - couldn't work, couldn't eat. Today I am up and am forcing myself to skiing with my son.
It's so hard, but the secret really is one step at a time, isn't it?
So...we're all in this together and we will get through it.
Post by inthemoment on Feb 27, 2010 12:04:22 GMT -8
I'm there too, glaciertraveler. Trying to focus the energy elsewhere, but there's that inner voice that keeps reminding me that there's this void that demands attention. I stop, ask it what it wants, and it dissipates for a moment, then as soon as I go to do something else, it's once again clamoring for attention!
One moment, one day at a time. I read a lot on meditation and being in the moment. I have a set of conscious pieces to my meditation focus. One is to spend a moment becoming aware of who's business I am in - someone else's, God's/the universe, or mine. Then once I focus just on what's mine, I question whether I'm thinking in the past, in the future, or right now. So that becomes my compass: Me. Now. That's all we can really control - our thoughts and actions in this moment.